Curious you didn't mention wood flooring (the real stuff). I'm staying in 97 year-old house with beautiful original oak flooring, while (as part of a reno) my own house is having it's 35 year-old oak flooring refinished. It's reusable for generations, develops even more character with normal wear, and has that barely perceptible give that's often not a death sentence for a sturdy casserole dish.
I didn't mention them because they're not inexpensive, but they are great. They can be creaky, but that's part of the character I guess! I don't think I've ever seen a vinyl product that truly looks, let alone feels, like hardwood. The ability to refinish a material is also a mark of durability. That's one of the things I dislike about a lot of the modern stuff. It just slowly wears out, and you often can't do much to restore it.
Agree completely. My house, built in 1905, had wood flooring throughout. I was raised in suburbia so the thought of not putting down wall-to-wall carpeting didn't occur to me until after I'd lived here for 20 years. During a major renovation in 2008, I had all the floors refinished -- and installed oak floors in the kitchen as well. Going against the granite tide, I also had wood counters installed in the kitchen. It makes my house so much warmer and more homey, and fits with its cottage-like character.
I will admit to preferring some modern touches, though. I've got stainless steel kitchen appliances, which I prefer to the white or colored options of old.
my own home so I don’t want to overpay for an on-trend finish that I won’t keep. But newer appliances by some companies like Bosch or LG are highly functional and durable.
I've heard LGs are not very good (especially a run of fridges awhile back, but maybe they've fixed those issues by now.) Not really sure who's good these days - my parents always went with Whirlpool and I have the impression it's still pretty good stuff.
Yes - I hate the idea of paying for work I don't want. I'd rather pay less and replace the old stuff on my own time, as long as it's not destroyed or filthy. And sometimes it really is better! Lots of 1980s/1990s bathroom vanities are solid wood. Almost all the new ones are particle board. I'd dissemble the old one and re-stain it before I bought the Glacier Bay thing everyone installs.
I’m in the process of cleaning out/fixing up my late parents home in obx. The decision on flooring is paralyzing me. Yes, I need to rip out the 30 year old carpet but the realtor recommended LVP looks just awful. She says most of the new beach house owners/investors here are installing it and she wants me to paint the old pine trim and beams white. All seems so sterile -I feel like I’m erasing their home and what this whole area used to be. I guess LVP is just a symptom of what’s happening here overall.
Everywhere. Most of the beautiful wood beams (and even stair bannisters) are painted white here in Northern Virginia. White smudges and stains, especially on bannisters, compared to the usually fairly dark wood colors. I don't really know if anyone *likes* this stuff or if it's just inexpensive and inoffensive enough to brighten up a place for sale. But I would absolutely prefer an un-renovated house as a buyer!
I despise the grey LVP that seems to be in every house on the market right now! I would check out linoleum tile. It’s attractive and much more durable and perfect for a beach house and still economical. I would leave the trim natural. If it’s too orange (pine sometimes is especially if it was finished with oil based stain or polyurethane) strip it and clear coat it. There are more buyers out there than realtors will admit who don’t want what everyone else has!
I'm conflicted on appliances - on the one hand, newer ones tend to be much more energy and water efficient to operate. On the other hand, is that operational advantage enough to offset the cost of replacing appliances more frequently because they are (for the most part) not built to be repaired the way they were a few decades ago?
At any rate, totally agree on stainless steel. Our kitchen appliances are "stainless" (courtesy of a "flip" circa 2011) and they show every fingerprint or drip of water. What a misnomer.
I don't know the numbers well, but I have a hard time believing that the lifecycle environmental savings (i.e. the environmental/energy cost of manufacturing and disposing as well as operating) is really that much. It could even be negative. A junky appliance isn't any less environmentally costly to manufacture. The energy efficiency of the unit is only one piece of its overall energy consumption. (Of course, how much it puts on your electric bill is a different issue. I'm not sure what the payback period would actually be if, say, you replace a 20-year-old working fridge with a new one.)
I love laminate countertops! They’re easy to clean, a good surface for rolling out baked goods, and are pretty durable. But they’re also relatively DIY friendly to make. The only specialty tool needed is a trim router, but it’s basically just the laminate surface glued to plywood. You can’t make your own granite or marble!
Yeah. All those orange pizza parlor tables that are probably 40 years old now are just Formica. Particle board can be crap but it seems to depend on the size of the shavings and integrity of the glue. Some of it is incredibly solid. And you're supposed to reseal granite at least once a year! It's like you're paying more for the privilege of paying more haha
Definitely could do without most of the modern, smart chip integrations, plastic parts, etc. Prefer the old and built to last 25 or 30 years. Marble vs formica? Both have pros and cons. Formica scratches easier and in my experience burns easier. Can be better to maintain tho! Solid Surface is a good low maintenance option.
My parents have a boxy off-white fridge, very typical unit, from 1994. It still runs great (not quite as cold as it used too, but enough to not have any issues). Heck, my grandmother had a rusty fridge with a shredded seal in her basement from the 50s or 60s, and the thing still got cold.
My parents also have Corian - that is very durable but it develops burn marks easily. Our Formica counters don't have any marks, but I've never put anything on it coming right off the stove. You learn the quirks of whatever you end up with, I guess!
I repaired a GE washer dryer set and got 25 years out of it. I replaced a valve and the drum suspension for the dryer, and eventually had to swap out the analog controller.
But it was a perfect set, lots of capacity in a small space and no control panel, just a single knob.
I also have three cars, all of which are over 175k, all from the early 2000s. Modern but pre-touchscreen.
The touchscreen is the touch of death, because you are beholden to the manufacturer for updates in the best case and continuous connection and subscription in the worst.
I'm generally in the same camp as you. I also prefer Formica countertops over stone, and older appliances (which were both more functional and lasted longer) over newer. I also find most modern home design trends unappealing. Whenever I see those "before and after" home renovation pictures, I almost always prefer the "before" look. There's a boring, soulless sameness to the kind of designs pushed on most home-improvement shows.
As Amanda Mull said in this recent Atlantic piece...
...I'm firmly opposed to chasing trends with an eye for the resale value of the home. My wife and I are currently looking for a new home; when we find it, we plan to live there long-term. As a result, we'll decorate it the way we like it, not the way some hypothetical future buyer would prefer.
Hmmm, this topic is like discussing religion... It really comes down to personal preference and I think fundamentally reflects one's inner personality traits. For me, I like quality materials that are practical and durable and tend towards a traditional look. Two examples: cementitious siding (eg Hardie Board) over wood clapboards because they last a long time and hold paint well, and Corian or quartz counter tops over natural stone or formica because they are very durable and easy to clean. Often there is a slightly higher up front cost, but not always and the longer term hard and soft costs are usually lower. Also, your example of internet connected appliances is on point as much of that is solutions looking for problems (ie marketing BS). I'm not against technology (embedded or otherwise) when it has a practical use, I just eschew the gratuitous use of technology for technologies sake. BTW, I'm not a luddite by any means having worked at in the software development world for a long time. I general, I would much rather pay more for something (really any physical goods) well made that will last a long time that cheap throw away crap. But then again. I'm the kind of guy who downcycles everything until it has no further use and have no interest in fashion trends, and have been that way my whole life.
Sheet vinyl floors are very easy to gouge and will curl at the edges and seams if not installed properly. LVP isn’t as prone to those two issues. Doesn’t mean I’m a fan (I despise the grey LVP that is so popular right now), but definitely two improvements made over sheet vinyl. Real linoleum will last a really long time, is very durable and is still affordable. Tile is not only easier to break, it’s also cold and harder to care for-those pesky grout lines! My number one preference is, and always will be, real hardwood, but that definitely isn’t a budget option.
I’ve had laminate counters and I’ve had stone. I MUCH prefer the stone. Laminate is easier to scratch and burn. It’s also prone to buckling around sinks as the fiberboard it’s typically installed on does not like water. Better budget options are butcher block and concrete.
With appliances I’m with you all the way. Simpler is better! I do not need a refrigerator to remind me to buy milk, I just need it to keep my milk cold!!
I feel like I am with you when it comes to a 10-year-old functional appliance, but not a 40-year-old "happens to still work" appliance.
When it comes to finishes and fixtures overall, we have similar discussions about different "new" materials all the time. There's contractor-grade stuff that is awful, there's old materials that are worn or ugly, there's "luxury" stuff that you see all over IG and blogs that has the same sterile lack-of-taste aspects, and then there are quality materials that, as long as you don't go to the extent of pursing fake authenticity that you become a parody of a designer/decorator, are tasteful and last a long time and are probably the best materials to use (but they're never cheap and they're also not attention-getting enough to be bragged about in mansion tour photosets). The trendy stuff is rarely the best stuff, it's usually trendy because people who lack taste desire to spend money on it & show it off.
That opens up a different discussion: where do you go to read reliable information about materials and design, if the major design mags and websites are not doing a very good job of it?
Couldn't agree more! We just moved into a house with finishes and appliances anywhere from the 70s to the 90s, because it was all we could afford. I was convinced we'd soon want to remodel a lot of it, but after living in it for a few months, I am so attached to our Formica countertops and old appliances. Best of all..our house doesn't look like anyone else's! It has character. And no, that doesn't have to mean real wood floors and design from a seemingly very specific era.
Curious you didn't mention wood flooring (the real stuff). I'm staying in 97 year-old house with beautiful original oak flooring, while (as part of a reno) my own house is having it's 35 year-old oak flooring refinished. It's reusable for generations, develops even more character with normal wear, and has that barely perceptible give that's often not a death sentence for a sturdy casserole dish.
I didn't mention them because they're not inexpensive, but they are great. They can be creaky, but that's part of the character I guess! I don't think I've ever seen a vinyl product that truly looks, let alone feels, like hardwood. The ability to refinish a material is also a mark of durability. That's one of the things I dislike about a lot of the modern stuff. It just slowly wears out, and you often can't do much to restore it.
Real wood (especially hard woods, such as oak) are ideal, imho. Problem is, to install new, the cost is a barrier. Again, just my take.
Agree completely. My house, built in 1905, had wood flooring throughout. I was raised in suburbia so the thought of not putting down wall-to-wall carpeting didn't occur to me until after I'd lived here for 20 years. During a major renovation in 2008, I had all the floors refinished -- and installed oak floors in the kitchen as well. Going against the granite tide, I also had wood counters installed in the kitchen. It makes my house so much warmer and more homey, and fits with its cottage-like character.
I will admit to preferring some modern touches, though. I've got stainless steel kitchen appliances, which I prefer to the white or colored options of old.
Wood counters are awesome (I have them), but they need care and attention. I have to re-oil them periodically and they are not tolerant of heat!
Depends! In general I want to customize
my own home so I don’t want to overpay for an on-trend finish that I won’t keep. But newer appliances by some companies like Bosch or LG are highly functional and durable.
I've heard LGs are not very good (especially a run of fridges awhile back, but maybe they've fixed those issues by now.) Not really sure who's good these days - my parents always went with Whirlpool and I have the impression it's still pretty good stuff.
Yes - I hate the idea of paying for work I don't want. I'd rather pay less and replace the old stuff on my own time, as long as it's not destroyed or filthy. And sometimes it really is better! Lots of 1980s/1990s bathroom vanities are solid wood. Almost all the new ones are particle board. I'd dissemble the old one and re-stain it before I bought the Glacier Bay thing everyone installs.
I’m in the process of cleaning out/fixing up my late parents home in obx. The decision on flooring is paralyzing me. Yes, I need to rip out the 30 year old carpet but the realtor recommended LVP looks just awful. She says most of the new beach house owners/investors here are installing it and she wants me to paint the old pine trim and beams white. All seems so sterile -I feel like I’m erasing their home and what this whole area used to be. I guess LVP is just a symptom of what’s happening here overall.
Everywhere. Most of the beautiful wood beams (and even stair bannisters) are painted white here in Northern Virginia. White smudges and stains, especially on bannisters, compared to the usually fairly dark wood colors. I don't really know if anyone *likes* this stuff or if it's just inexpensive and inoffensive enough to brighten up a place for sale. But I would absolutely prefer an un-renovated house as a buyer!
I despise the grey LVP that seems to be in every house on the market right now! I would check out linoleum tile. It’s attractive and much more durable and perfect for a beach house and still economical. I would leave the trim natural. If it’s too orange (pine sometimes is especially if it was finished with oil based stain or polyurethane) strip it and clear coat it. There are more buyers out there than realtors will admit who don’t want what everyone else has!
I'm conflicted on appliances - on the one hand, newer ones tend to be much more energy and water efficient to operate. On the other hand, is that operational advantage enough to offset the cost of replacing appliances more frequently because they are (for the most part) not built to be repaired the way they were a few decades ago?
At any rate, totally agree on stainless steel. Our kitchen appliances are "stainless" (courtesy of a "flip" circa 2011) and they show every fingerprint or drip of water. What a misnomer.
I don't know the numbers well, but I have a hard time believing that the lifecycle environmental savings (i.e. the environmental/energy cost of manufacturing and disposing as well as operating) is really that much. It could even be negative. A junky appliance isn't any less environmentally costly to manufacture. The energy efficiency of the unit is only one piece of its overall energy consumption. (Of course, how much it puts on your electric bill is a different issue. I'm not sure what the payback period would actually be if, say, you replace a 20-year-old working fridge with a new one.)
Mostly agree. I think fashion can be "overdone" particularly when, as you describe so well, durability and practical issues are compromised.
I love laminate countertops! They’re easy to clean, a good surface for rolling out baked goods, and are pretty durable. But they’re also relatively DIY friendly to make. The only specialty tool needed is a trim router, but it’s basically just the laminate surface glued to plywood. You can’t make your own granite or marble!
Yeah. All those orange pizza parlor tables that are probably 40 years old now are just Formica. Particle board can be crap but it seems to depend on the size of the shavings and integrity of the glue. Some of it is incredibly solid. And you're supposed to reseal granite at least once a year! It's like you're paying more for the privilege of paying more haha
Definitely could do without most of the modern, smart chip integrations, plastic parts, etc. Prefer the old and built to last 25 or 30 years. Marble vs formica? Both have pros and cons. Formica scratches easier and in my experience burns easier. Can be better to maintain tho! Solid Surface is a good low maintenance option.
My parents have a boxy off-white fridge, very typical unit, from 1994. It still runs great (not quite as cold as it used too, but enough to not have any issues). Heck, my grandmother had a rusty fridge with a shredded seal in her basement from the 50s or 60s, and the thing still got cold.
My parents also have Corian - that is very durable but it develops burn marks easily. Our Formica counters don't have any marks, but I've never put anything on it coming right off the stove. You learn the quirks of whatever you end up with, I guess!
I repaired a GE washer dryer set and got 25 years out of it. I replaced a valve and the drum suspension for the dryer, and eventually had to swap out the analog controller.
But it was a perfect set, lots of capacity in a small space and no control panel, just a single knob.
I also have three cars, all of which are over 175k, all from the early 2000s. Modern but pre-touchscreen.
The touchscreen is the touch of death, because you are beholden to the manufacturer for updates in the best case and continuous connection and subscription in the worst.
I'm generally in the same camp as you. I also prefer Formica countertops over stone, and older appliances (which were both more functional and lasted longer) over newer. I also find most modern home design trends unappealing. Whenever I see those "before and after" home renovation pictures, I almost always prefer the "before" look. There's a boring, soulless sameness to the kind of designs pushed on most home-improvement shows.
As Amanda Mull said in this recent Atlantic piece...
https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2022/11/lifestyle-media-home-improvement-trends-obsession/672168/
...I'm firmly opposed to chasing trends with an eye for the resale value of the home. My wife and I are currently looking for a new home; when we find it, we plan to live there long-term. As a result, we'll decorate it the way we like it, not the way some hypothetical future buyer would prefer.
Hmmm, this topic is like discussing religion... It really comes down to personal preference and I think fundamentally reflects one's inner personality traits. For me, I like quality materials that are practical and durable and tend towards a traditional look. Two examples: cementitious siding (eg Hardie Board) over wood clapboards because they last a long time and hold paint well, and Corian or quartz counter tops over natural stone or formica because they are very durable and easy to clean. Often there is a slightly higher up front cost, but not always and the longer term hard and soft costs are usually lower. Also, your example of internet connected appliances is on point as much of that is solutions looking for problems (ie marketing BS). I'm not against technology (embedded or otherwise) when it has a practical use, I just eschew the gratuitous use of technology for technologies sake. BTW, I'm not a luddite by any means having worked at in the software development world for a long time. I general, I would much rather pay more for something (really any physical goods) well made that will last a long time that cheap throw away crap. But then again. I'm the kind of guy who downcycles everything until it has no further use and have no interest in fashion trends, and have been that way my whole life.
Sheet vinyl floors are very easy to gouge and will curl at the edges and seams if not installed properly. LVP isn’t as prone to those two issues. Doesn’t mean I’m a fan (I despise the grey LVP that is so popular right now), but definitely two improvements made over sheet vinyl. Real linoleum will last a really long time, is very durable and is still affordable. Tile is not only easier to break, it’s also cold and harder to care for-those pesky grout lines! My number one preference is, and always will be, real hardwood, but that definitely isn’t a budget option.
I’ve had laminate counters and I’ve had stone. I MUCH prefer the stone. Laminate is easier to scratch and burn. It’s also prone to buckling around sinks as the fiberboard it’s typically installed on does not like water. Better budget options are butcher block and concrete.
With appliances I’m with you all the way. Simpler is better! I do not need a refrigerator to remind me to buy milk, I just need it to keep my milk cold!!
Agreed 100%. Functional mechanical appliances that are simple and reliable are my jam, as are my ugly countertops.
I feel like I am with you when it comes to a 10-year-old functional appliance, but not a 40-year-old "happens to still work" appliance.
When it comes to finishes and fixtures overall, we have similar discussions about different "new" materials all the time. There's contractor-grade stuff that is awful, there's old materials that are worn or ugly, there's "luxury" stuff that you see all over IG and blogs that has the same sterile lack-of-taste aspects, and then there are quality materials that, as long as you don't go to the extent of pursing fake authenticity that you become a parody of a designer/decorator, are tasteful and last a long time and are probably the best materials to use (but they're never cheap and they're also not attention-getting enough to be bragged about in mansion tour photosets). The trendy stuff is rarely the best stuff, it's usually trendy because people who lack taste desire to spend money on it & show it off.
That opens up a different discussion: where do you go to read reliable information about materials and design, if the major design mags and websites are not doing a very good job of it?
I disagree on sheet vinyl flooring. I'm an appraiser and have seen many horrible examples of sheet vinyl. Ugly stuff.
I agree completely about appliances. I don't want a connected appliance with bad security that can be hacked easily by some bad guy.
Couldn't agree more! We just moved into a house with finishes and appliances anywhere from the 70s to the 90s, because it was all we could afford. I was convinced we'd soon want to remodel a lot of it, but after living in it for a few months, I am so attached to our Formica countertops and old appliances. Best of all..our house doesn't look like anyone else's! It has character. And no, that doesn't have to mean real wood floors and design from a seemingly very specific era.