I’m a Honda Odyssey driver now. What I like about all minivans, whether full size or mini-minis like the Mazda 5 is their versatility. They can be passenger haulers when family is visiting or taking friends around, but the seats can also fold and they become great cargo haulers. I can haul lumber in my minivan almost as easily as in a pickup and it’s protected from the weather.
Both sedans and SUVs are really bad at morphing to meet other needs- MPVs and minivans offer tons of options that can flex as needed.
For the last 10 years I have had a Honda Edix here in NZ (or FRV in other countries). Similar size to the Mazda in the article, and with an absolutely genius unusual seating arrangement that is hugely flexible for carrying people or gear. This car can swallow ridiculous amounts of stuff, but it's basically a compact.
It was 10 years old when I bought it (imported secondhand from Japan, as many cars here are). I have finally replaced it with another car, a 5-year old Ioniq EV, but I'm gutted at the thought of losing its incredible practicality and haven't actually sold it yet.
If I could get an electric compact MPV I would snap it up. Mitsubishi and Nissan are producing award winning Kei car EVs that might meet some city families needs, but for most these are too small, clearly limited for carrying anything other than four people.
I loved our old blue Mazda MPV -- definitely a minivan, bigger than the Mazda 5 that replaced it, but it felt much more like driving a car than the Chrysler minivan we got later. Driving the Chrysler felt like I was steering a container ship.... And forget about parallel parking.
"what with SUVs being exempt from the tighter fuel-economy standards to which cars are held. "
Are you saying a RAV4 (which gets better gas mileage then mazda5 in almost any drivetrain configuration) is exempt from fuel economy standards?
I know "light duty" and "heavy duty" vehicles (of which most are trucks) are on a separate lower fuel economy standard.
The idea that average Mazda5 owner went to those behemoths is frankly absurd. The price difference alone makes them not remotely cross-shopped.
My family had the Mazda5, it was totally rad. It also chewed through rear brakes and shocks. It was a stretched Mazda3 chassis with it's drawbacks.
Since our time with it, my stepfather moved to a Prius and my sister who inherited it after (and then drove it to the ground) a Honda Civic hatchback. Both of which get far superior gas mileage then the plucky little mini mini van did.
I find to often people start with a bias of anti-suv (I don't care for them myself but I daily a Miata making me a total outlier) then try to hamfist some new data point to prove it. Often with totally incorrect assumptions i.e. SUVs are exempt from fuel standards.
The story of the Mazda5 is interesting but it died because no one bought it here. First it was a minivan and everyone thinks they are lame (a pity they rule). Further at the time Chrysler minivan could be had with discounts for equivalent money, a bigger vehicle with more power (the 5 was anemic) for only slightly worst gas mileage. The 5 was also a product designed during the Ford partnership, near the end of the vans run Mazda was moving on its own trying to ditch products from the partnership.
It's not true that "no one" bought the Mazda 5. It did not sell well, but the people it served were a unique niche. And you had better believe there are people who shell out for a larger, more expensive car because having a large family is important to them. They should not have to do that.
I admitted we had one in our family, obviously people bought it. Comparing it to anything else price wise or segment (closest is minivans) it sold nowhere the numbers to justify continuing.
Look at the sales of the 5, they never were stellar and at the end were dealer poison. Couldn't move them.
If the premise the article was "hey it's a bummer these aren't around anymore", I'd broke bread with you. As it's written it's just another "SUVs are bad" piece and it didn't really make that case. The mini mini van was final transaction price same as the bigger mini vans (which could tow), it wasn't more efficient then the small SUVs, had no AWD. It was just a extremely niche vehicle (the kind I like!), regardless of the cursed SUVs!
I’m a Honda Odyssey driver now. What I like about all minivans, whether full size or mini-minis like the Mazda 5 is their versatility. They can be passenger haulers when family is visiting or taking friends around, but the seats can also fold and they become great cargo haulers. I can haul lumber in my minivan almost as easily as in a pickup and it’s protected from the weather.
Both sedans and SUVs are really bad at morphing to meet other needs- MPVs and minivans offer tons of options that can flex as needed.
Interesting point, thank you!
For the last 10 years I have had a Honda Edix here in NZ (or FRV in other countries). Similar size to the Mazda in the article, and with an absolutely genius unusual seating arrangement that is hugely flexible for carrying people or gear. This car can swallow ridiculous amounts of stuff, but it's basically a compact.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_FR-V
It was 10 years old when I bought it (imported secondhand from Japan, as many cars here are). I have finally replaced it with another car, a 5-year old Ioniq EV, but I'm gutted at the thought of losing its incredible practicality and haven't actually sold it yet.
If I could get an electric compact MPV I would snap it up. Mitsubishi and Nissan are producing award winning Kei car EVs that might meet some city families needs, but for most these are too small, clearly limited for carrying anything other than four people.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_Sakura
We have one of these! It works well for our neighborhood, which is small-lot single family and duplex, and I see a number of them around.
I loved our old blue Mazda MPV -- definitely a minivan, bigger than the Mazda 5 that replaced it, but it felt much more like driving a car than the Chrysler minivan we got later. Driving the Chrysler felt like I was steering a container ship.... And forget about parallel parking.
Yep. Have only ever driven a conventional minivan a tiny bit, but it's nothing like a car!
I had a Mazda5 and loved it
"what with SUVs being exempt from the tighter fuel-economy standards to which cars are held. "
Are you saying a RAV4 (which gets better gas mileage then mazda5 in almost any drivetrain configuration) is exempt from fuel economy standards?
I know "light duty" and "heavy duty" vehicles (of which most are trucks) are on a separate lower fuel economy standard.
The idea that average Mazda5 owner went to those behemoths is frankly absurd. The price difference alone makes them not remotely cross-shopped.
My family had the Mazda5, it was totally rad. It also chewed through rear brakes and shocks. It was a stretched Mazda3 chassis with it's drawbacks.
Since our time with it, my stepfather moved to a Prius and my sister who inherited it after (and then drove it to the ground) a Honda Civic hatchback. Both of which get far superior gas mileage then the plucky little mini mini van did.
I find to often people start with a bias of anti-suv (I don't care for them myself but I daily a Miata making me a total outlier) then try to hamfist some new data point to prove it. Often with totally incorrect assumptions i.e. SUVs are exempt from fuel standards.
The story of the Mazda5 is interesting but it died because no one bought it here. First it was a minivan and everyone thinks they are lame (a pity they rule). Further at the time Chrysler minivan could be had with discounts for equivalent money, a bigger vehicle with more power (the 5 was anemic) for only slightly worst gas mileage. The 5 was also a product designed during the Ford partnership, near the end of the vans run Mazda was moving on its own trying to ditch products from the partnership.
Did I say "no fuel economy standards"? I'm referring to this - the light-truck loophole, by which large passenger vehicles, generally considered cars, are regulated as "light trucks" which are not held to as tight a standard as vehicles which are regulated as "cars": https://www.capitalone.com/cars/learn/finding-the-right-car/what-is-the-suv-loophole-and-will-it-close/2654
It's not true that "no one" bought the Mazda 5. It did not sell well, but the people it served were a unique niche. And you had better believe there are people who shell out for a larger, more expensive car because having a large family is important to them. They should not have to do that.
Even with the loophole the RAV4 (crv, cx5, etc) had the same fuel efficiency or better as the former 5 did.
https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/noframes/35388.shtml
https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/noframes/35577.shtml
Let's look at the more probable crossed shop vehicle, the Caravan. A larger, faster and often same priced with a marginal fuel hit.
https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/bymodel/2015_Dodge_Grand_Caravan.shtml
I admitted we had one in our family, obviously people bought it. Comparing it to anything else price wise or segment (closest is minivans) it sold nowhere the numbers to justify continuing.
Look at the sales of the 5, they never were stellar and at the end were dealer poison. Couldn't move them.
If the premise the article was "hey it's a bummer these aren't around anymore", I'd broke bread with you. As it's written it's just another "SUVs are bad" piece and it didn't really make that case. The mini mini van was final transaction price same as the bigger mini vans (which could tow), it wasn't more efficient then the small SUVs, had no AWD. It was just a extremely niche vehicle (the kind I like!), regardless of the cursed SUVs!