I drove a minivan a long time ago when I was a small business owner and had to haul around computers (back when monitos were CRTs!). It was a fantastic vehicle for hauling cargo. I have never understood the appeal of an SUV. If I want a 4WD, I'm going to get a pickup. If I want people room, I'm getting a minivan. SUVs have always struck me as the worst of all worlds.
My parents love their minivan - they love the storage space, especially the room for a dog crate.
Another pro of minivans: the sliding doors, often automatic! For families, especially of young children, this is very helpful. It's honestly the most common dealbreaker I've heard families mention between minivans and SUVs. So yeah, I assume families with SUVs are just in it for the perception.
When my friends who have kids talk about buying trucks I always ask them what advantage a truck offers over a minivan with a trailer. For most (but not all!) of them, a truck clearly worse, but they’d still never dream of buying a van. It isn’t about practicality, it’s about culture.
I wonder if the minivan in China largely takes the place of smaller pickups in the US? They offer the option of enclosed cargo space (like a truck bed with a cap), but without the Western-movie machismo that seems to get tied up here with even the smallest truck.
The minivan gets a bad rap in the US. They're not sporty perhaps, they're not rugged, but if you don't think you'll drive off-road there's little point to the sport utilities that dominate vehicle sales in the US. the shapes are relatively inefficient both for use of space and for fuel economy, and the handling suffers from the high ground clearance. My daughter's family have a minivan (Chrysler Pacifica hybrid). So easy to load and unload, amazing versatility use for space, quiet, good handling, good fuel efficiency. I even like driving it, and as should be obvious I'm hard to please. I wish manufacturers would bring out some smaller ones as well. It's an underserved category.
It’s so funny to read this (and through the lens of China) because I’ve literally been kicking around an “ode to minivans” piece in my head for 6 months or so! I’ve driven a Honda Odyssey for almost a decade now and think it’s the perfect car. Great piece!
Interesting piece, fascinating how some auto brands & models take off in certain markets.
Some anecdotal observations based on my 24 years of experience in China, a decade of which was spent living there:
The smaller van in photo 2, in the parking garage, is often known as a miàn bāo chē, or “bread car” based on its resemblance to a loaf of bread. These were quite cheap to purchase, very basic & primitive, used for various purposes including cargo & black cabs, but many of these aging vehicles are no longer allowed within certain parts of big cities.
These types of vans in China may also serve a different purpose than in North America, not so much a family vehicle as a luxury office on wheels for business folks. Maybe part of that is the lack of cultural baggage regarding vans we in the US associate w/ soccer moms and family cars, as you mention.
Many of my Chinese friends who are well to do have replaced their A8Ls or 750Ls (L for long wheel base) with these types of vans as their chauffeured vehicle of choice. I’ve heard that the long wheel base versions of luxury sedans & Range Rovers sell better in China than any other market. These vans offer more seating than sedans and better gas mileage, I’d imagine.
Many of the newer types of vans seen in your other photos can have lie-flat massaging captains chairs in the middle & back, high powered A/C, hardwood floors, souped up engines, etc., along with tons of cargo space which make them quite versatile & comfy.
There was a time when I’d visit China and friends would sometimes send their driver to pick me up at the airport in a LWB Audi, Buick or BMW - over the last few years it’s been almost exclusively those fancy vans, which I don’t mind at all!
The legal definition of light-duty truck is under 8,500 gross vehicle weight and available with "special features that permit off-road or off-highway use". If there's an AWD version I think that's all that's required.
So my Subaru Outback (AWD, 8 1/2" ground clearance) probably qualifies. I wonder if that explains why Subaru no longer import the wagon version of the Legacy, the platform on which the Outback is based. I've seen the Legacy wagons in the UK, so I know they're still being produced.
I bought a 2012 Dodge Grand Caravan from Enterprise Car Sales in 2014. I'm a drummer. The minivan had more cargo space with the seats folded into the floor, than my previous vehicle, a Ford Expedition. If I'm still playing when this one goes, I'm going to look for a minivan, that is a plug-in hybrid. When I was a kid, almost every family had a station wagon. The minivan and the crossover, have become the new station wagons. Chevy made a Suburban back then, but it was pretty much used as a farm vehicle. Personally, I like driving my Dodge. I've rented newer ones, when I've been out of town, and minivans all have a nice, comfortable feel about them. Boring is nice. When I was a kid, boring was the Oldsmobile.
That's a good point - the original sport utility vehicles were based on truck platforms and were pickup truck alternatives for people who needed enclosed space or moving passengers on crap roads. You suffered using one for ordinary road use - loud, bumpy ride, aggressively utilitarian interior. "Luxury" and "SUV" used to be mutually exclusive. As for your Dodge, minivans is one thing that Chrysler has always done pretty well. My kid's Pacifica is the current iteration, but I've driven a number of Caravans over the years. They make good ones.
My parents had the late-90s/early 00s Caravan and then when it died got the late-00s one, which is still kicking. The Pacifica is pretty, but if I ever upgrade from my sedan, I really like the hybrid Odyssey. I just see no argument for an SUV over a minivan and I've never really heard one. Lots of actual car enthusiasts don't even like SUVs!
As Chip notes, the stow and go seats are really handy, if you have need of that versatility, as my daughter does with her family. My load hauling usually means cargo, so I wouldn't mind removing and installing seats. From that perspective the Honda is a strong candidate; legendary for engines and drivetrains.
If I lived out West I might want an SUV. My wife and I like outdoor sports, and getting to hiking and mtn bike trails can involve some crap road conditions where AWD and higher ground clearance might be desirable. Having said that, we used to be ice climbers, which meant we drove north into northern Ontario in winter on some sketchy, snowy, sloppy logging roads to approach climbs. We mostly did this in my wife's VW Jetta wagon or my WV Golf hatchback. Compared to the current Outack, driving one of the little front-drive cars into the bush required more care, but we always got there and back again. Even with my Golf TDI, which sat about 5" off the pavement. Good winter tires and FWD will get you a lot of places. I can make a case for a set of higher-profile mud/snow tires on a hatchback getting as far into the backcountry as I'd want to go. There is a school of thought that says each additional technical feature just helps you get stuck farther from the pavement...
My wife has a Subaru Forrester. It accelerates twice as fast as the Caravan. It also has higher clearance underneath than the minivan. We have a steep driveway. The Forrester doesn't bottom out when you pull in the driveway. My Caravan does. I have to park it on the street. Neither one of us drives much. The Forrester is a 2007 with just over 60,000 miles. Put a little over 3,000 miles on it last year. The Caravan is a 2012 with about 120,000 on it. I've averaged about 7,200 miles per year on it, over the past 3 years. Most of that is driving to the Metro station.
The only reason I would take the Pacifica over the Odyssey is the Pacifica has the stow and go seats. I don't have to take the seats out and store them somewhere.
I drove a minivan a long time ago when I was a small business owner and had to haul around computers (back when monitos were CRTs!). It was a fantastic vehicle for hauling cargo. I have never understood the appeal of an SUV. If I want a 4WD, I'm going to get a pickup. If I want people room, I'm getting a minivan. SUVs have always struck me as the worst of all worlds.
My parents love their minivan - they love the storage space, especially the room for a dog crate.
Another pro of minivans: the sliding doors, often automatic! For families, especially of young children, this is very helpful. It's honestly the most common dealbreaker I've heard families mention between minivans and SUVs. So yeah, I assume families with SUVs are just in it for the perception.
When my friends who have kids talk about buying trucks I always ask them what advantage a truck offers over a minivan with a trailer. For most (but not all!) of them, a truck clearly worse, but they’d still never dream of buying a van. It isn’t about practicality, it’s about culture.
I recently read this article about electric vehicles in China. Did you see any? Does this ring true to you? https://insideevs.com/features/719015/china-is-ahead-of-west/
I wonder if the minivan in China largely takes the place of smaller pickups in the US? They offer the option of enclosed cargo space (like a truck bed with a cap), but without the Western-movie machismo that seems to get tied up here with even the smallest truck.
The minivan gets a bad rap in the US. They're not sporty perhaps, they're not rugged, but if you don't think you'll drive off-road there's little point to the sport utilities that dominate vehicle sales in the US. the shapes are relatively inefficient both for use of space and for fuel economy, and the handling suffers from the high ground clearance. My daughter's family have a minivan (Chrysler Pacifica hybrid). So easy to load and unload, amazing versatility use for space, quiet, good handling, good fuel efficiency. I even like driving it, and as should be obvious I'm hard to please. I wish manufacturers would bring out some smaller ones as well. It's an underserved category.
It’s so funny to read this (and through the lens of China) because I’ve literally been kicking around an “ode to minivans” piece in my head for 6 months or so! I’ve driven a Honda Odyssey for almost a decade now and think it’s the perfect car. Great piece!
Interesting piece, fascinating how some auto brands & models take off in certain markets.
Some anecdotal observations based on my 24 years of experience in China, a decade of which was spent living there:
The smaller van in photo 2, in the parking garage, is often known as a miàn bāo chē, or “bread car” based on its resemblance to a loaf of bread. These were quite cheap to purchase, very basic & primitive, used for various purposes including cargo & black cabs, but many of these aging vehicles are no longer allowed within certain parts of big cities.
These types of vans in China may also serve a different purpose than in North America, not so much a family vehicle as a luxury office on wheels for business folks. Maybe part of that is the lack of cultural baggage regarding vans we in the US associate w/ soccer moms and family cars, as you mention.
Many of my Chinese friends who are well to do have replaced their A8Ls or 750Ls (L for long wheel base) with these types of vans as their chauffeured vehicle of choice. I’ve heard that the long wheel base versions of luxury sedans & Range Rovers sell better in China than any other market. These vans offer more seating than sedans and better gas mileage, I’d imagine.
Many of the newer types of vans seen in your other photos can have lie-flat massaging captains chairs in the middle & back, high powered A/C, hardwood floors, souped up engines, etc., along with tons of cargo space which make them quite versatile & comfy.
There was a time when I’d visit China and friends would sometimes send their driver to pick me up at the airport in a LWB Audi, Buick or BMW - over the last few years it’s been almost exclusively those fancy vans, which I don’t mind at all!
Wait, minivans fall into the same BS “light truck” category that SUVs abuse to avoid emissions and fuel economy standards?
The legal definition of light-duty truck is under 8,500 gross vehicle weight and available with "special features that permit off-road or off-highway use". If there's an AWD version I think that's all that's required.
So my Subaru Outback (AWD, 8 1/2" ground clearance) probably qualifies. I wonder if that explains why Subaru no longer import the wagon version of the Legacy, the platform on which the Outback is based. I've seen the Legacy wagons in the UK, so I know they're still being produced.
I bought a 2012 Dodge Grand Caravan from Enterprise Car Sales in 2014. I'm a drummer. The minivan had more cargo space with the seats folded into the floor, than my previous vehicle, a Ford Expedition. If I'm still playing when this one goes, I'm going to look for a minivan, that is a plug-in hybrid. When I was a kid, almost every family had a station wagon. The minivan and the crossover, have become the new station wagons. Chevy made a Suburban back then, but it was pretty much used as a farm vehicle. Personally, I like driving my Dodge. I've rented newer ones, when I've been out of town, and minivans all have a nice, comfortable feel about them. Boring is nice. When I was a kid, boring was the Oldsmobile.
That's a good point - the original sport utility vehicles were based on truck platforms and were pickup truck alternatives for people who needed enclosed space or moving passengers on crap roads. You suffered using one for ordinary road use - loud, bumpy ride, aggressively utilitarian interior. "Luxury" and "SUV" used to be mutually exclusive. As for your Dodge, minivans is one thing that Chrysler has always done pretty well. My kid's Pacifica is the current iteration, but I've driven a number of Caravans over the years. They make good ones.
My parents had the late-90s/early 00s Caravan and then when it died got the late-00s one, which is still kicking. The Pacifica is pretty, but if I ever upgrade from my sedan, I really like the hybrid Odyssey. I just see no argument for an SUV over a minivan and I've never really heard one. Lots of actual car enthusiasts don't even like SUVs!
As Chip notes, the stow and go seats are really handy, if you have need of that versatility, as my daughter does with her family. My load hauling usually means cargo, so I wouldn't mind removing and installing seats. From that perspective the Honda is a strong candidate; legendary for engines and drivetrains.
If I lived out West I might want an SUV. My wife and I like outdoor sports, and getting to hiking and mtn bike trails can involve some crap road conditions where AWD and higher ground clearance might be desirable. Having said that, we used to be ice climbers, which meant we drove north into northern Ontario in winter on some sketchy, snowy, sloppy logging roads to approach climbs. We mostly did this in my wife's VW Jetta wagon or my WV Golf hatchback. Compared to the current Outack, driving one of the little front-drive cars into the bush required more care, but we always got there and back again. Even with my Golf TDI, which sat about 5" off the pavement. Good winter tires and FWD will get you a lot of places. I can make a case for a set of higher-profile mud/snow tires on a hatchback getting as far into the backcountry as I'd want to go. There is a school of thought that says each additional technical feature just helps you get stuck farther from the pavement...
My wife has a Subaru Forrester. It accelerates twice as fast as the Caravan. It also has higher clearance underneath than the minivan. We have a steep driveway. The Forrester doesn't bottom out when you pull in the driveway. My Caravan does. I have to park it on the street. Neither one of us drives much. The Forrester is a 2007 with just over 60,000 miles. Put a little over 3,000 miles on it last year. The Caravan is a 2012 with about 120,000 on it. I've averaged about 7,200 miles per year on it, over the past 3 years. Most of that is driving to the Metro station.
The only reason I would take the Pacifica over the Odyssey is the Pacifica has the stow and go seats. I don't have to take the seats out and store them somewhere.