A generational struggle my partner and I are experiencing is that boomers lived in a time when “space was cheap and things were expensive” while millennials live in a time where “space is expensive but things are cheap”, so they constantly want to buy and give us things but we have nowhere to put them.
I live in fear of inheriting multiple hutches filled with china that no one wants.
*cries in millennial "the parents gave us all the stuff they don't have room for in their 3500 sq ft downsized place so now we have to figure out where to put it in our 1350 sq ft condo"*
Great quotes! Great curation! Score one for the hive mind!
First: I read a decent number of probate cases from the Republic of Texas. The inventories are very revealing. They list every fork, every plate, every box of nails, every gallon of linseed oil, and every keg of white lead. People did not have much, so every possession seemed significant to them. My present-day mind speaks in the background, "why are they counting and evaluating all this junk?" Because people were poorer and their assets were less liquid (there was no real currency yet), the "junk" always sold for fractions of their valuations, so at least the buyer benefitted from buying cheap stuff that they had a use for.
Second: In as much as better technology lead to an expanded array of goods and services, there is another question whether they contribute to our well being. The first post articulated how many of these goods and services are better, but this is not always the case. Keypads on ovens and ranges: bad!!! Touchscreens on cars: bad!!! High-performance engines for consumer markets: bad!!!
Third: some of the other quotes hinted at a cultural element to consumption. Sometimes people desire to consume what other people are consuming so that they are not left out. I am guessing that there are sophisticated ways that social scientists talk about this phenomenon, but I have no idea that that is.
Fourth: I have never understood the Baumol Effect. I don't know why I am so dumb about this.
Great piece. I'm a boomer child of a Great Depression survivor, and it definitely led to some ongoing dysfunction around money. Such an interesting point you make about having less to spend on back then. I plan to advise my smart grandkids to begin saving early. It's like growing a tree... just takes lots of time.
"You probably didn’t have supermarkets with caviar and USDA Prime dry-aged steaks and sashimi-grade ahi tuna."
You mention getting your caviar & champagne at Wegmans, and I can tell you, you WERE NOT able to get those at Wegmans in the 1990s, even in a nice neighborhood. You could buy "nicer" stuff, but that meant fancy cheeses or a bottle of wine. You could even rent a video or buy a cassette of classical music. But that stuff that felt a little luxurious then, feels "normal" today, or even old-fashioned.
I think back to my childhood, and I think we're trying to keep the same sort of budgeting mindset my parents had - but even so, our kids have so much more than we had as kids - and so much less than many of their friends, who are growing up with this mentality of "anything I want, I can have it now".
The only things I can identify with in here are 1) live *below* your means, and 2) so you’re prepared for any type of “rainy day”. This has allowed our nuclear family to 1) weather a period of one spouse’s unemployment, 2) afford a new-construction (with input) “dream” home, 3) afford college, and 3) both retire early.
This was a fantastic read. You raise some great regarding personal finance and healthcare. No amount of cutting back on coffee or avocado toast will prepare most people to be able to afford the expenses that come with something like an unexpected cancer diagnosis, especially if they have less than stellar insurance coverage (high deductible and such).
Thank you so much for this article. I've been thinking about this for the last couple of years. I'm GenX, raised by Boomers, who were themselves raised by the Greatest Gen. I grew up in an upper middle class enclave on the West Coast in the 80's and 90', highest income per capita zip etc etc. I promise you that on a daily basis, for me and my peers, it was "Turn down the heat!" "NO you cannot have your own phone line". "No why would I let you drive my car? No you cannot have your own." "For vacation we are going to visit Grandma!" "These prom dress is HOW MUCH? Oh my god...."
And that was the culture. Even the wealthiest kids I knew, were not allowed to think of money as something that was to be assumed or treated easily. Even the ones whose family names you would recognize now. (There were only a few of those, our town was more UMC than truly wealthy - but there were a few.)
But you're correct that it did help that there simply weren't as many things for middle/upper middle class families to spend on. I'm so glad.
Now, as Gen-Xer, I find myself in a weird paralysis. I have more money than I ever have before - yet I am less interested than ever in spending it. I'm sure it's mostly because I don't live in the city anymore. But even little things at home - I don't like to turn the heat up too high - because we have sweaters and a woodstove for god's sake! I force myself to pick up change that I've dropped or that I find while cleaning, because if I were to leave money on the ground then money might start to avoid me because I have no respect. That is a little proverb that I guess I made up for myself.) My car is 25 years old (in great condition) and it pains me to imagine the day I might have to buy a new one.
I cannot even imagine what it would be like to live the life of consumption that middle/upper middle families are doing these days. The feverish working, the delivered meals, the commuting, the big-ass house, the yard you never even use, the bigger and bigger SUVs. The "mommy -lift". The trips. The huge and elaborate decorations on your house for Halloween and "the holidays". And this is for people who in many cases don't even have much of a solid financial cushion!
I wayyyy prefer the penurious upbringing I had, and I'm continuing the tradition in my own home now.
I graduated from a small Catholic college in 1999. One of our last official acts before commencement was the student loan meeting where they informed us of our final tab and how repayment would work. $17,000...a number I thought was crippling. Fast forward 15 years later. I hired someone at $35K/year (it was a nonprofit job) and she cried because it meant she could come out of forbearance for her 50K+ in loans. In retrospect, I'm not sure if it was pride that she finally made enough to start paying them back or tears of having to now pay them back.
Yes, everything costs more now but everything always costs more. The question is what socioeconomic classes are we concerned about serving and are companies seeking to reach because it ain't the middle class anymore, assuming you can find them.
Nah, this was for our girl Sallie. I think it was called our exit interview? Anyhow, we signed our financial aid acceptance each year, so we knew what we were agreeing to, BUT this was the final final before we went into a week of pre-commencement boozing.
Our community is (like many others) arguing about housing. At a recent community meeting, teachers were sharing that they can’t afford to live in the district, even though they make middle-class money. At the same time, residents (well-off ones, I noticed) insisted that there was plenty of housing, but people are spoiled and want the best. If they were willing to live in smaller, older, or not trendy places, there are plenty of available houses.
I’m not sure if there are empty units, as a factual matter, but things got really heated and there was name calling on both sides.
I hate that argument! "There are plenty of places to live here!" as an argument not to build when the only places available are expensive and there AREN'T smaller, older places.
I am retired with sufficient, stable income to live comfortably. But I still track where our money goes and review it often for expenses we could pare. I hold in my mind wanting to find 10% to trim.
We live in a 1450 sf house that had a full unfinished basement. We have finished to add an additional 1400 sf of living space set up as a separate apartment (sans separate entrance). We do have two paid-for cars, but primarily use only one. There is no particular reason to sell it.
I do all my own remodeling, thereby avoiding tens of thousands in labor costs. All the lawn has been replaced with vegetable and ornamental garden beds.
Unfortunately, this life is out of reach of my two children in their forties.
Why is this life out of reach for them? Because they think they need to live in high COLAs?
I don't mean this in a flippant way at all - but there are thousands of places in the US that are relatively low cost of living. Not ALL of them are full of crime, etc. Not by a long shot.
I keep this in mind all the time. I am more than willing to move to one of them!
I think it's fascinating how the way we grow up influences our behavior. Even as cost of living overall has risen where I live (less than the coasts - god bless the Midwest) I still find myself going out to eat on the weekends like we did as a family growing up. Every Friday (and sometimes Saturday too!) we'd go out to eat, usually the same 10 or so restaurants my parents liked that me and siblings also found acceptable (one thing I have changed is the different good I'll eat - more than anything else, I'm pro immigration for the goddamn good food)
And I still find myself engaging in those habits. I make less money - I'm single, work for a small business (♥️), and live in a neighborhood that's gentrifying - but I can't help myself from going out to eat on the weekends. It might not be the most financially sound move... But I never regret it. It makes life a little more enjoyable and I think that's worth whatever consequences down the line I may face
You mentioned furniture—that’s one of them. IKEA offers a lot of diversity, but it’s all disposable. The American furniture industry making mid-priced, real-wood, “heirloom-quality” items that you can keep for decades or longer doesn’t exist anymore. Now there’s only IKEA and high-end designer (which is mostly not actually better quality).
Another one is appliances. Yes, they have more features. But the durability of a contemporary fridge or dishwasher is terrible: they last about seven years, on average. They are relatively cheaper to buy and more efficient to run, yes, but you have to replace them much more frequently. So the consumer utility is a wash. It’s EXTREMELY inconvenient when your essential appliance breaks and you can’t replace it quickly, too.
Another example is clothing. Clothing is across the board terrible quality now, due to the corrosive influence of fast fashion and now *even faster* fashion from the likes of Temu and Shein. You can, again, but designer stuff, but it’s rare that it’s actually better fabric or construction. So Americans have WAY more clothes now, but the clothing lasts maybe a single season, especially with harsh machine washing and drying. And even before it’s worn out, it looks shabbier, more faded, and more threadbare due to the poorer construction.
Even that house which was smaller and has less convenient living plans and fewer appliances or outlets was just built better. D houses “have good bones.” The actual 2x4s themselves were thicker and actually 2” thick. And ever try and repair a modern cabinet? They’re not real wood. The pressed wood product and veneers are very vulnerable to moisture damage and scratching. And you can’t fix them! They also cost SO MUCH to replace. Maybe the dowdy old kitchens and bathrooms weren’t so bad, after all?
And I NEVER EVER EVER buy new furniture. Bought some shit from Ashley Furniture 4 years ago because we had 12 guests coming and I was freaking out - and I will never do that again.
I'm only buying stuff from old ladies on Facebook marketplace now.
Regarding clothes - it is incredibly frustrating. I don't even know what to say there. I line-dry even in the winter (inside in the winter) - but it is really tiresome to spend all the time fiddling around with it, when I have a full time job as well.
I'm starting to see why in the past, a family had a bread-earner, and a bread-maker. It seems a bit silly for both to be bread-earners, when all we spend the money on is absolute trash.
So, I started line-drying out of necessity when I move to Europe, where dryers are very uncommon. And I found, to my surprise, that it wasn't so annoying. I lived first in Ireland, (which is very Pacific Northwest in climate), and that's about the worst-case scenario for line-drying, but even there clothes would generally dry indoors on a drying rack in 24 hours. So, aside from the permanent display of "unsightly" laundry somewhere in my house, it really wasn't an issue. And I quickly found that my clothes were lasting exponentially longer and just looked far newer longer! Plus, I never had to iron! Americans don't generally love the "starchy" feeling of hang-dried cotton, especially with towels, but it does have the great benefit of being wrinkle-less. So, that, in addition to removing the (rather dear) cost and space of a machine, was a real revelation to me. I have clothes that are 15-20 years old and look good as new.
The furniture issue is really frustrating. The good news is that grandma-style furniture is very out of style, so you can find vintage, good-quality stuff for almost nothing. I saw this in action when my wife's grandmother died and we cleaned out her apartment: perfectly good, solid-wood furniture that NOBODY wanted. We ended up having to throw away some things that we couldn't accommodate ourselves and even the thrift shop wouldn't take :(
Back when I still lived in the States, I would trawl Craigslist and found amazing, beautiful stuff to fit my broke college student and struggling 20-something wages. Ditto for kitchenwares. I do the same over here and score most of my furniture off Facebook Marketplace and the like for next to nothing. Certain things become trendy and expensive, but if you have a classic aesthetic, you can find great stuff for WAY less than you pay for the disposable particle-board you find at the shops.
A generational struggle my partner and I are experiencing is that boomers lived in a time when “space was cheap and things were expensive” while millennials live in a time where “space is expensive but things are cheap”, so they constantly want to buy and give us things but we have nowhere to put them.
I live in fear of inheriting multiple hutches filled with china that no one wants.
*cries in millennial "the parents gave us all the stuff they don't have room for in their 3500 sq ft downsized place so now we have to figure out where to put it in our 1350 sq ft condo"*
Yeah, pretty obnoxious. "A generational struggle.."!!! "I live in fear...."!!!!! "they constantly want to buy and give us things...."!!!!!!
I'm so, so, so sick of these people. I'm sick of their aesthetic, I'm sick of the way they talk, I'm sick of the way they think.
I'm so glad that I'm filling my 1907 farmhouse with the beautiful items that these people are "living in fear" of .
cool story bro
Great quotes! Great curation! Score one for the hive mind!
First: I read a decent number of probate cases from the Republic of Texas. The inventories are very revealing. They list every fork, every plate, every box of nails, every gallon of linseed oil, and every keg of white lead. People did not have much, so every possession seemed significant to them. My present-day mind speaks in the background, "why are they counting and evaluating all this junk?" Because people were poorer and their assets were less liquid (there was no real currency yet), the "junk" always sold for fractions of their valuations, so at least the buyer benefitted from buying cheap stuff that they had a use for.
Second: In as much as better technology lead to an expanded array of goods and services, there is another question whether they contribute to our well being. The first post articulated how many of these goods and services are better, but this is not always the case. Keypads on ovens and ranges: bad!!! Touchscreens on cars: bad!!! High-performance engines for consumer markets: bad!!!
Third: some of the other quotes hinted at a cultural element to consumption. Sometimes people desire to consume what other people are consuming so that they are not left out. I am guessing that there are sophisticated ways that social scientists talk about this phenomenon, but I have no idea that that is.
Fourth: I have never understood the Baumol Effect. I don't know why I am so dumb about this.
Great piece. I'm a boomer child of a Great Depression survivor, and it definitely led to some ongoing dysfunction around money. Such an interesting point you make about having less to spend on back then. I plan to advise my smart grandkids to begin saving early. It's like growing a tree... just takes lots of time.
"You probably didn’t have supermarkets with caviar and USDA Prime dry-aged steaks and sashimi-grade ahi tuna."
You mention getting your caviar & champagne at Wegmans, and I can tell you, you WERE NOT able to get those at Wegmans in the 1990s, even in a nice neighborhood. You could buy "nicer" stuff, but that meant fancy cheeses or a bottle of wine. You could even rent a video or buy a cassette of classical music. But that stuff that felt a little luxurious then, feels "normal" today, or even old-fashioned.
I think back to my childhood, and I think we're trying to keep the same sort of budgeting mindset my parents had - but even so, our kids have so much more than we had as kids - and so much less than many of their friends, who are growing up with this mentality of "anything I want, I can have it now".
I learned to sew so I can piece back together those cheaply made garments when they invariably fall apart...
The only things I can identify with in here are 1) live *below* your means, and 2) so you’re prepared for any type of “rainy day”. This has allowed our nuclear family to 1) weather a period of one spouse’s unemployment, 2) afford a new-construction (with input) “dream” home, 3) afford college, and 3) both retire early.
This was a fantastic read. You raise some great regarding personal finance and healthcare. No amount of cutting back on coffee or avocado toast will prepare most people to be able to afford the expenses that come with something like an unexpected cancer diagnosis, especially if they have less than stellar insurance coverage (high deductible and such).
Thank you so much for this article. I've been thinking about this for the last couple of years. I'm GenX, raised by Boomers, who were themselves raised by the Greatest Gen. I grew up in an upper middle class enclave on the West Coast in the 80's and 90', highest income per capita zip etc etc. I promise you that on a daily basis, for me and my peers, it was "Turn down the heat!" "NO you cannot have your own phone line". "No why would I let you drive my car? No you cannot have your own." "For vacation we are going to visit Grandma!" "These prom dress is HOW MUCH? Oh my god...."
And that was the culture. Even the wealthiest kids I knew, were not allowed to think of money as something that was to be assumed or treated easily. Even the ones whose family names you would recognize now. (There were only a few of those, our town was more UMC than truly wealthy - but there were a few.)
But you're correct that it did help that there simply weren't as many things for middle/upper middle class families to spend on. I'm so glad.
Now, as Gen-Xer, I find myself in a weird paralysis. I have more money than I ever have before - yet I am less interested than ever in spending it. I'm sure it's mostly because I don't live in the city anymore. But even little things at home - I don't like to turn the heat up too high - because we have sweaters and a woodstove for god's sake! I force myself to pick up change that I've dropped or that I find while cleaning, because if I were to leave money on the ground then money might start to avoid me because I have no respect. That is a little proverb that I guess I made up for myself.) My car is 25 years old (in great condition) and it pains me to imagine the day I might have to buy a new one.
I cannot even imagine what it would be like to live the life of consumption that middle/upper middle families are doing these days. The feverish working, the delivered meals, the commuting, the big-ass house, the yard you never even use, the bigger and bigger SUVs. The "mommy -lift". The trips. The huge and elaborate decorations on your house for Halloween and "the holidays". And this is for people who in many cases don't even have much of a solid financial cushion!
I wayyyy prefer the penurious upbringing I had, and I'm continuing the tradition in my own home now.
I graduated from a small Catholic college in 1999. One of our last official acts before commencement was the student loan meeting where they informed us of our final tab and how repayment would work. $17,000...a number I thought was crippling. Fast forward 15 years later. I hired someone at $35K/year (it was a nonprofit job) and she cried because it meant she could come out of forbearance for her 50K+ in loans. In retrospect, I'm not sure if it was pride that she finally made enough to start paying them back or tears of having to now pay them back.
Yes, everything costs more now but everything always costs more. The question is what socioeconomic classes are we concerned about serving and are companies seeking to reach because it ain't the middle class anymore, assuming you can find them.
The right time to show you your expected total bill, would have been before the work was already done. Like they do at the auto shop.
Crazy that they didn't tell you until it was already a done deal?
Also - you were repaying the college directly? Not SALLIE MAE or whomever?
Nah, this was for our girl Sallie. I think it was called our exit interview? Anyhow, we signed our financial aid acceptance each year, so we knew what we were agreeing to, BUT this was the final final before we went into a week of pre-commencement boozing.
Our community is (like many others) arguing about housing. At a recent community meeting, teachers were sharing that they can’t afford to live in the district, even though they make middle-class money. At the same time, residents (well-off ones, I noticed) insisted that there was plenty of housing, but people are spoiled and want the best. If they were willing to live in smaller, older, or not trendy places, there are plenty of available houses.
I’m not sure if there are empty units, as a factual matter, but things got really heated and there was name calling on both sides.
I hate that argument! "There are plenty of places to live here!" as an argument not to build when the only places available are expensive and there AREN'T smaller, older places.
I am retired with sufficient, stable income to live comfortably. But I still track where our money goes and review it often for expenses we could pare. I hold in my mind wanting to find 10% to trim.
We live in a 1450 sf house that had a full unfinished basement. We have finished to add an additional 1400 sf of living space set up as a separate apartment (sans separate entrance). We do have two paid-for cars, but primarily use only one. There is no particular reason to sell it.
I do all my own remodeling, thereby avoiding tens of thousands in labor costs. All the lawn has been replaced with vegetable and ornamental garden beds.
Unfortunately, this life is out of reach of my two children in their forties.
Why is this life out of reach for them? Because they think they need to live in high COLAs?
I don't mean this in a flippant way at all - but there are thousands of places in the US that are relatively low cost of living. Not ALL of them are full of crime, etc. Not by a long shot.
I keep this in mind all the time. I am more than willing to move to one of them!
I think it's fascinating how the way we grow up influences our behavior. Even as cost of living overall has risen where I live (less than the coasts - god bless the Midwest) I still find myself going out to eat on the weekends like we did as a family growing up. Every Friday (and sometimes Saturday too!) we'd go out to eat, usually the same 10 or so restaurants my parents liked that me and siblings also found acceptable (one thing I have changed is the different good I'll eat - more than anything else, I'm pro immigration for the goddamn good food)
And I still find myself engaging in those habits. I make less money - I'm single, work for a small business (♥️), and live in a neighborhood that's gentrifying - but I can't help myself from going out to eat on the weekends. It might not be the most financially sound move... But I never regret it. It makes life a little more enjoyable and I think that's worth whatever consequences down the line I may face
Some things that we buy are definitely worse:
You mentioned furniture—that’s one of them. IKEA offers a lot of diversity, but it’s all disposable. The American furniture industry making mid-priced, real-wood, “heirloom-quality” items that you can keep for decades or longer doesn’t exist anymore. Now there’s only IKEA and high-end designer (which is mostly not actually better quality).
Another one is appliances. Yes, they have more features. But the durability of a contemporary fridge or dishwasher is terrible: they last about seven years, on average. They are relatively cheaper to buy and more efficient to run, yes, but you have to replace them much more frequently. So the consumer utility is a wash. It’s EXTREMELY inconvenient when your essential appliance breaks and you can’t replace it quickly, too.
Another example is clothing. Clothing is across the board terrible quality now, due to the corrosive influence of fast fashion and now *even faster* fashion from the likes of Temu and Shein. You can, again, but designer stuff, but it’s rare that it’s actually better fabric or construction. So Americans have WAY more clothes now, but the clothing lasts maybe a single season, especially with harsh machine washing and drying. And even before it’s worn out, it looks shabbier, more faded, and more threadbare due to the poorer construction.
Even that house which was smaller and has less convenient living plans and fewer appliances or outlets was just built better. D houses “have good bones.” The actual 2x4s themselves were thicker and actually 2” thick. And ever try and repair a modern cabinet? They’re not real wood. The pressed wood product and veneers are very vulnerable to moisture damage and scratching. And you can’t fix them! They also cost SO MUCH to replace. Maybe the dowdy old kitchens and bathrooms weren’t so bad, after all?
Dowdy old kitchens and bathrooms yes!!
And I NEVER EVER EVER buy new furniture. Bought some shit from Ashley Furniture 4 years ago because we had 12 guests coming and I was freaking out - and I will never do that again.
I'm only buying stuff from old ladies on Facebook marketplace now.
Regarding clothes - it is incredibly frustrating. I don't even know what to say there. I line-dry even in the winter (inside in the winter) - but it is really tiresome to spend all the time fiddling around with it, when I have a full time job as well.
I'm starting to see why in the past, a family had a bread-earner, and a bread-maker. It seems a bit silly for both to be bread-earners, when all we spend the money on is absolute trash.
So, I started line-drying out of necessity when I move to Europe, where dryers are very uncommon. And I found, to my surprise, that it wasn't so annoying. I lived first in Ireland, (which is very Pacific Northwest in climate), and that's about the worst-case scenario for line-drying, but even there clothes would generally dry indoors on a drying rack in 24 hours. So, aside from the permanent display of "unsightly" laundry somewhere in my house, it really wasn't an issue. And I quickly found that my clothes were lasting exponentially longer and just looked far newer longer! Plus, I never had to iron! Americans don't generally love the "starchy" feeling of hang-dried cotton, especially with towels, but it does have the great benefit of being wrinkle-less. So, that, in addition to removing the (rather dear) cost and space of a machine, was a real revelation to me. I have clothes that are 15-20 years old and look good as new.
The furniture issue is really frustrating. The good news is that grandma-style furniture is very out of style, so you can find vintage, good-quality stuff for almost nothing. I saw this in action when my wife's grandmother died and we cleaned out her apartment: perfectly good, solid-wood furniture that NOBODY wanted. We ended up having to throw away some things that we couldn't accommodate ourselves and even the thrift shop wouldn't take :(
Back when I still lived in the States, I would trawl Craigslist and found amazing, beautiful stuff to fit my broke college student and struggling 20-something wages. Ditto for kitchenwares. I do the same over here and score most of my furniture off Facebook Marketplace and the like for next to nothing. Certain things become trendy and expensive, but if you have a classic aesthetic, you can find great stuff for WAY less than you pay for the disposable particle-board you find at the shops.
This is a wise comment! Why do we all need to be working to spend money when all we spend the money on is absolute trash. Amen!